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Korov’ev
Member
Posts: 160

I’ve noticed a kind of pattern in verb/noun pairs, and I was wandering if it might be an indication of something more. Maybe this was already discussed elsewhere?

Most verbs seem to follow the ‘tav’ class of noun formation:

tíg, work (v.) <—> tíg-tav, work (n.) <—> tíg-tan, worker (n.)


But at least one (or two) points to an ‘a’ class of noun formation:

bacen, map (v.) <—> bacan-a, map (n.)

relyim-a, Unseen (n.) <— ril-yim-a


And maybe at least one points to a ‘reverse’ class:

mišt-a, construct (v.) <—> mišt-a-tav, construction (n.)


If there actually is an ‘a’ class, then a few additional words could be reconstructed, e.g.:

votan-a, truth (n.) <—> *voten, tell the truth (v.)

bišt-a, tunnel (n.) <—> *bišt, (dig a) tunnel (v.)


The same with the ‘reverse’ class:

fús-a, call (v.) <—> *fús (fuš?), call (n.)

vokæn, birth (n.) <—> *vokan-a, give birth (v.)


Of course, there is this exception, but it might actually confirm the pattern:

tomana, home (n.) <—> toman, house (n.) | toman, host (v.)

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February 13, 2015 at 3:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
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Posts: 381

It's certainly an interesting idea worth exploring, I think.

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February 14, 2015 at 5:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Khreestrefah
Member
Posts: 96

Since -tahv added to a transitive verb is a generic designation of whatever is the direct object of the verb; it seems like bahtsentahv would refer to the region depicted in the map, i.e. ‘mapped region’ or something like that. Cartographers would find a distinction between the map itself and what the map depicts useful, which could explain the distinct compound or derivative bahtsahnah ‘map’, even if the meaning of the verb has been extended to take either as object. Of course, D’ni seems to have a way to make such things quite precise if desired, and the full-blown ‘correct’ construction was probably as in a sentence like:

 

.erthbahtsentahn kobahtsenen ah rebahtsentahv te batsahnah met

‘A cartographer mapped the region with this map.’

 

The word yimah is an adjective, the negative of this is rilyimah ‘unseen’. There is presumably a noun yimtahv ‘sight’, either the state of seeing or physiological capacity to see (derived from the intransitive sense of the verb) or “something seen” like a vista or thing seen on occasion, as in English seeing the sights (from the transitive sense of the verb).

 

The derivaton of the proper noun Relyimah (said to translate literally ‘The Unseen’) may have had particular circumstances. It could conceivably involve haplology of *rerilyimah, but in any case presumably involves sustantivizing of the adjective due to a generic noun of some sort being left implicit, like re(rovtee) rilyimah.

June 2, 2015 at 9:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Khreestrefah
Member
Posts: 96

There is a class of nouns that end in ah, a sizable number in the shape CVCah -- dovah 'world'; fenah 'story'; jimah 'prophesy'; kotsah 'gate'; lenah 'journey'; nahvah 'master'; ooshah 'formula'; sheegah 'way'; shorah 'peace'; somah 'seal, signet'; tiwah 'shaft'; tsofah 'horn'; yeeshah 'laughter'.

 

For some of these it would be plausible to see them as derived fom verbs, e.g jimah, lenah, or yeeshah. But it seems less likely that this is true for the whole group; and perhaps we are dealing with a pattern that is morphological rather than being strictly syntactic in the way that addition of tahv is.

 

This might help to explain why there could be the same formative pattern in adjectives: gitsah ‘safe’; hahzah ‘white’; kerah ‘brave’; neeah ‘new, blank’; pahrah ‘great, large’; tonah ‘long’; wotsah ‘harsh’; yimah ’seen’ — and in verbs: beerah ‘keep, stay’; fahlah ‘fold’; foosah ‘call’; keebah ‘obey’; lahsah ‘seal, close’; mahlah ‘come’; tseemah ’need’.

 

June 24, 2015 at 7:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
Site Owner
Posts: 381

Is this pattern statistically significant? That is, can you find series of words exhibiting identical structures, but different final vowels? And do the numbers of words in these patterns match up to the frequency of the vowels?

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June 25, 2015 at 6:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Khreestrefah
Member
Posts: 96

Of words with the shape CVCV those with final vowel ah are certainly the most frequent, but the other vowels can occur. The next most frequent are CVCo — nouns: ahno ‘water’, dahko ‘marble’, fahdho ‘experience’, gilo ‘plant’, misho ‘universe’, tahvo ‘a 14.5 minute period’, toogo ‘foot’, Yahvo ‘God’; adjectives: ahgo ‘well’, gahro ‘great, mighty’, miro ‘toxic’, tsahno ‘everlasting, permanent’; verbs: chiso ‘archive’, malo ‘forget’, netso ‘produce, make’.

 

Less frequent is the shape CVCoo — nouns: bonoo ‘acid’, reekoo ‘a small silky-furred animal’, vaytsoo ‘presence’; adjectives: ahtsoo ‘ready’, jeroo ‘possible’, rahsoo ‘vanquished’; verbs: laysoo ‘carry’, shokhoo ‘instruct’, tsoonoo ‘greet’.

 

And slightly less frequent there is CVCay — nouns: raiway ‘procedure’, rooay ‘route’, veelay ‘soul’, yootay ‘guinea pig’; adjectives: goyray ‘straight’, sifay ‘wired’; verb: shuhfay ‘finish’. And with about the same frequency CVCee — nouns: dayjee ‘path’, roshee ‘crater’, shahfee ‘span’, vailee ‘month’; verbs: ahnee ‘become, get’, beeree ‘maintain’, kahzee ‘detour’, voohee ‘can, could’.

 

The other vowels are relatively rare in final position, but they all occur. For CVCuh we have noun zuhnuh ‘ending and adjective fooruh ‘sufficient’. For CVCe we have the noun ahve ‘error’. For CVCi we have the adjective soygi ‘stable’. For CVCoy we have the verb pahboy ‘bless’.

June 27, 2015 at 10:23 PM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
Site Owner
Posts: 381

We can add hahpo "mix, combine" to the list of CVCo words.

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July 1, 2015 at 6:46 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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