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Korov’ev
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Posts: 160

We have many examples of prefixes and suffixes that are also used separately:


rebišta” vs. “re ter”, “Korox Jima” vs. “revog miro ox revádu”, “rilbokenet” vs. “ril komanšú”, etc.


This could suggest the possibility that (part of) the D’ni sources are actually written without word separations. As we often have the transcriptions and not the actual texts, the difference might depend on the trascriber’s choices.

Alternatively, the texts could be spaced, but the transition from unseparated words happened relatively recently, so the D’ni themselves weren’t completely sure whether to separate those particles or not.

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  46116   —  D’ní notesFontsGoodies
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August 13, 2014 at 6:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
Site Owner
Posts: 381

I recall reading about this sometime. At least in the case of okh, it attaches to end of the whole NP, rather than a noun. It attaches to the noun only if it's the last word. In the case of re, I was under the impression that it was always prefixed. Is there a floating case attested?

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August 13, 2014 at 7:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Korov’ev
Member
Posts: 160

Admittedly, there’s only one source(1) (Tree) for the floating re, and now that I can actually see it (2), I’d discard it.

Incidentally, shouldn’t it be either “I see Relto” or “I see the Elto”? The way it’s usually written translates to “I see the The High Place”.


Regarding ox, it can sometimes also be prefixed: “xresógiþ oxmetbišta”, FL. The position in relation to the context might have been fixed after the introduction of spaces.


There are examples with te (“komanšú te bivdil”, Kédiš vs “kæmrov tešemtí”, Orz) and me (“meD’ní”, Map vs “retoman me præd”, DLG); b’ is sometimes written as a separate be (“peké b’riš be motí”, GJ; b’riš might have crystallized early).


In fact, there aren’t that many examples, but beside a scarcity of texts, the continuous writing hypothesis could still hold, if the ‘floating particles’ school was in minority and fading.


(1) https://web.archive.org/web/20071203094219/http://linguists.bahro.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132

(2) https://web.archive.org/web/20060614065849im_/http://linguists.bahro.com/forums/uploads/post-42-1078492634.png

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  46116   —  D’ní notesFontsGoodies
.fa  mEstav  Kat  Kenen  xanril  fUru

August 14, 2014 at 4:19 AM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
Site Owner
Posts: 381

Turning now to a more prosodic analysis, it seems more than likely that these particles are clitic (meaning they are never stressed). Cross-linguisticly, clitics have a strong tendency to attach to a full phonological word (one that carries stress), but they don't have to. I think, in these cases, we just have to formulate a set of plausible rules that fit most of the samples (cf. what I remarked about okh).

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August 14, 2014 at 7:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Talashar
Member
Posts: 30

Possibly there was simply a certain amount of variation allowed in the use of spaces between certain words, depending on phonological factors (when the vowel of a preposition is reduced, it must attach to the following word), syntactic factors (okh doesn't attach to a preceding noun+adjective phrase), as well as fashion and chance.


The text inside the Book of Atrus cover is unique in that it places an extra-wide space after every apostrophe (even in d' ni [sic]).  Given its early OOC date, I wonder if this was just a typographical issue that hadn't been sorted out yet.

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Talashar Geltahn; Ki 183867 An overview of D'ni grammar | My books

August 20, 2014 at 8:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

KathTheDragon
Site Owner
Posts: 381

Much like how some people like to use double spacing after full stops?

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August 21, 2014 at 7:15 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Talashar
Member
Posts: 30

Yes, though in this case there may have been a connection to variation in the spoken language as well. I think it likely that the spacing of ril, for instance, is connected to the amount of stress placed on the word (and indeed may be one of our only hints of D'ni prosody).

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Talashar Geltahn; Ki 183867 An overview of D'ni grammar | My books

August 21, 2014 at 8:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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